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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 1, 2011 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

The only reason there are any late-September '69 AUDs is because the Dead were playing a run in New York, where there were tapers. (Comparatively, there were very few AUDs made in all their California shows that year!)
There are still many sets missing, though, as our NY taping friends didn't hit all the shows; and sadly, the Boston Tea Party run that followed NYC is completely missing.

Anyway, I don't know why there are no SBDs for a month - my guess is Bear must have been detained with something during that time & couldn't head east. Either that, or some accident happened to a truckload of tapes! A lot of reels from that time were lost after being taped.
You can email Lemieux and ask if any of this is in the Vault...

I asked similar questions here -

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Poster: Space Jogger Date: Sep 4, 2011 9:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

I emailed DL and he responded promptly. Here was the content of our correspondence...


"I've always been floored by the performance of 'The Seven' from 9.29.69 Cafe au Go Go Brooklyn, NY, but the sound quality of the only tape on the archive is kind of rough. Is there a copy of this show in the vault? Is there anything in the vault from 9.11.69 through 10.24.69, where there doesn't seem to be any SBD in circulation? Any ideas if there are SBDs of these shows outside the vault? If so, is there a chance the recordings are worth showcasing or releasing?"


"That's a pretty slim time for the Dead's tape collection. There are some cassette masters from this period, but no reels. The cassettes sound OK, but not great."

--So some shows may have been recorded on reels and they are pretty much lost, but some cassette masters were made before they were lost? I wonder if any of these are uncirculated?

--Notice how he didn't answer my question directly about 9.29.69? I still appreciate the mystery!!!

This post was modified by Space Jogger on 2011-09-04 16:12:18

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 4, 2011 10:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

That is a pretty vague & brief reply! Though I understand that Lemieux's not likely to go digging through the vault for every show request...
Bear did do a lot of cassette taping in '69 as well as reels...sometimes he'd have a reel & a cassette recording a show at the same time!
I think there are a lot of uncirculated '69 cassettes in the Vault. Latvala also mentioned, "Bear got pretty thorough, he taped almost every show, although there's a little missing in '69. But I found these cassettes of Bear's...I don't think I could ever release any of it because they're not good enough quality."

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Poster: Jim F Date: Sep 1, 2011 10:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

I always thought that some of those September 69 auds sounded like they might have been made onstage. Pretty much that whole 69 era of no boards all sounds rather poor.

I've always been a rather avid collector of old Floyd shows along with the Dead and whatnot, and it's always struck me how much more deadicated Floyd tapers seemed to be. There are tons and tons of aud recordings, starting regularly around 1970-71, but also covering quite a bit of 69, and they rarely have many major cuts or missing pieces, often sound pretty good (considering), taper chatter and such around mics is nearly nonexistent, etc. Though I suppose the last thing is more due to there being more European recordings of the Floyd, where audiences were much more quiet and "respectful" it seeems.

Though I should say that the GD tapers seemed far more interested than Floyd tapers in newer and better gear, best positioning for recording, etc.

Though it's equally interesting that known lineage and type of circulation of Floyd tapes is A LOT different than it is in the GD world. Floyd were victim to nearly every aud recording being reprocessed over and over and put on bootleg records and cds, often multiple times. So many of the sources come from these "ROIO's" put on silvers with creative titles and usually shoddy artwork.

This post was modified by Jim F on 2011-09-02 05:16:26

This post was modified by Jim F on 2011-09-02 05:17:25

This post was modified by Jim F on 2011-09-02 05:17:39

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 1, 2011 10:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

You think those Fillmore East & Cafe a Go Go tapes were made onstage? By the band, perhaps? I don't think so.... I don't think any audience member would dare try an onstage taping at the Fillmore - and at the Cafe, the back wall wasn't that far back from the stage anyway so it would hardly make a difference (even if the band permitted it). In small clubs like the Cafe, the vocals tended to be low anywhere in the club, due to being drowned out by the loud amps. Perhaps we can try a sound analysis sometime....

There's not that many Floyd AUDs from '68/69 (mainly sounding pretty poor), but in parallel with the Dead, a lot of Floyd tapers start showing up in 1970 as their popularity booms, so there are plenty of Floyd AUDs that year.
I think there are a few reasons for there being relatively more early Floyd AUDs - one, they were more popular than the Dead. Also, they played more shows in Europe, where there were a LOT more tapers in '70 than in America (and usually with better equipment, too). Also, Floyd tapes had a much better chance of being circulated - whereas Dead tapes, no one would want them except other Dead collectors!

And European audiences did tend to be quieter & more "respectful" perhaps...but I think Floyd audiences, wherever they were, before Dark Side were always quieter than Dead audiences. I mean, you can hear a pin drop during a lot of those jams, and then polite applause at the end of each tune like they're classical pieces....amazing. Dead audiences were partiers, but I think the Floyd crowds were the REALLY stoned ones....

And "Dead bootleg" is almost an oxymoron....well, not really, I've seen some, and there were some famous vinyl Dead boots in the '70s; but nothing like the flood of Floyd boots recycling the same old tapes over & over. That's what you get when you're one of the biggest bands in the world! Floyd, Zeppelin, Hendrix, Dylan, Beatles, I think are the Big 5 for bootlegs (haven't looked that up though...maybe the Stones or Springsteen are up there).
[EDIT - OK, looks like it's actually Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Dylan, Springsteen.]
Anyway, by the time CDs came in Dead fans tended not to be the best market for boots, despite their numbers, due to so many free tapes...

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Poster: Jim F Date: Sep 2, 2011 10:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

I made the "onstage" comment based on the vocals (or lack of, rather), indeed. I dunno, my post wasn't very thought out or researched by any means. But upon checking out Deadlists, I think I know where I had the idea planted in my head. From the info for 9/30/69...

"The tape in circulation is an excellent AUD with a bad vocals mix; probably it was made with mics either on stage or on the stage rail and poorly placed in relation to vocals monitors."

That must be why I made the comment. I really haven't listened to anything from that period in quite a while, last thing I can remember pulling out was the jam with DTRag and The Seven, that had to have been some months back. It's got me wanting to dig in there a little. Especially the Fillmore East set from 9/26, the Dark Star>>>King Bee set. Again, it's been a while, but I remember finding that one pretty interesting as well as listenable.

As for the Floyd/GD etc taper thing, I've been typing all night and really don't feel like diving back into that one at the moment. My hands hurt lol. But believe me, I could say more and wish I were up to it.

Oh but quickly, yeah, I always found it to be fact that there were a lot more tapers in Europe in the 70's than in America. That's what bummed me out about one of my favorite bands, Queens of the Stone Age. They recently did a big tour to celebrate the remaster/re-release of their first album, where they played the album in it's entirety, along with other old classics of theirs. Twas truly a dream come true for Queens fans.

Anyway they've always been really pro-taping. Pretty much all the American dates were taped and easily found during the tour, usually within a few days of the show. Except the show I saw, of course, where I was to my knowledge the only taper, but naturally I had some technical problems and the recording turned out unlistenable! Dammit! But anyway their European dates are a lot harder to find, seems nobody is taping them over there. And they have a big following outside the states, too. Seems opposite of how I've always felt about tapers. It did seem to be bigger in Europe in it's early days, but it seems Europe has lost it's way in the taper world. But don't listen to me, I'm just some random dude.

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 3, 2011 1:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

You're right that 9/30 sure sounds like a stage mike - excellent quality for a '69 AUD, it's even in stereo!
(Ironically, all the reviews for it on the Archive complain about how awful the sound is....what dummies.)

9/26 is a typically awful Fillmore East recording. The 9/27 Fillmore tape sounds much better & clearer - wish it had sounded like that the night before!
9/29 is similar to 9/30 in having the low vocals, but otherwise much worse sound.... The tape lineage probably doesn't help, but you can tell the 9/29 taper is farther away from the amps. (Check out the huge difference in drum sound.) Fortunately it's still listenable!

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Poster: Space Jogger Date: Sep 1, 2011 9:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

Your blog article is excellent and very enjoyable, but it now leaves me with a lot more questions than answers. :)

It fueled my speculation of Bill Graham's staff recording at the Fillmore East. With all of these acts supposedly performing on 9.23.70 Wolfgang's Vault - Fillmore East Videos, it makes me wonder how much more Grateful Dead is in Wolfgang's Vault? The Grateful Dead obviously played a great show on 9.20.70 at the Fillmore East, but it may be a stretch to think that it was recorded on video as well. They do have some B&W video of 12.30.77 Grateful Dead which I thought was interesting.

Coincidentally, this week the tapers section at features two songs from 9.6.69: Casey Jones and Midnight Hour, which David Lemieux says are the only songs in the vault from this show. The two sources on the archive do not have a Midnight Hour listed at all, but a bunch of other songs?!

This post was modified by Space Jogger on 2011-09-02 04:43:00

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Sep 1, 2011 10:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: What's up with all the September '69 AUD?

I think what happened with 9/6/69 is the reels got separated - one reel went out into "circulation," one made it into the Vault, and I'd guess one was lost because otherwise it's a very short show! But that would fit the pattern of a lot of the other shows I listed.
Unfortunately it's very rare that Lemieux plays any unreleased '69....

There's also a video of the Dead on 2/14/70, of all shows. I'd love to know how many Dead shows at the Fillmores or Winterland that Bill Graham either filmed or taped.... A lot of his tapes & videos have apparently also been lost over the years.